The gooncave was inevitable ideologically in some form. Materialist ideologues thought we could place ourselves at the center of the cosmos, while pretending they were placing the sun there. If we are gods, individual and empowered by reason and scientific methodology so that we may shape the world as we will, then why not exist in the pod shooting ropes at E-girls who don't know we exist?
The answer of "because it's bad for your soul" is one the left (and it must be said, the mainstream right as well) cannot articulate or even admit. To them the soul either does not exist or if it does exist is simply a euphemism for personality. To the left then the innate loathing that gooning inspires can then only be mumbled in dreary and irrelevant 1930's Comintern language. Saying "gooners have social-fascist tendencies" while patting themselves on the back. The left can't get out of this without abandoning Marx but materialism is so cozy and the dialectic is so comfortably jargon filled.
You can condemn gooning as a utilitarian. It all comes down to how you quantify the positive affect -- the "utils" -- that utilitarians seek to optimize. Pleasure cannot be so easily divorced from the concept of a "good life", to which gooning is anathema. Any amplifier of human loneliness is inherently against the ideals of utilitarianism, because utilitarianism seeks to maximize pleasure and happiness, which in humans is derived mostly from our relationships with other humans. This was the key finding of Harvard's recently completed longitudinal study of human happiness -- friendships and relationships are paramount. Gooning poisons them and is thus a form of self-harm. I don't believe the gooners who claim to be happy with their lives, and neither does anybody else.
A non-dumb version of utilitarianism is probably possible, for the reasons you outline. It's hard for utilitarians to explain why some horrible things would still be wrong under the terms they've set - like why people in persistent vegetative states can't be rented out for sex - but I can let that slide for the present. Sorry for not responding to your thoughtful comment until now by the way. Somehow missed it!
Glad we agree! I think utilitarianism can be expanded into a system that condemns most harmful behaviors (including rented vegetables) and ultimately it does make sense to me as a way to navigate the world, but I agree it's not an idea that should be propagated widely when its core tenets can be so easily misunderstood. People confuse the hedonic with the eudaemonic and everything goes to shit.
I'm all about everything there but the humiliation memes were already tried. The failures ended up making counter memes. This all happened on 4chan 6 years ago. They didn't even need to be edited. The guys looked weird as everything and soulless but ppl found they had no self control. Everyone who I've found who wants to stop have self regulation skills and when they fail every humiliation gets absorbed into their personality. We don't really teach self regulation skills and if it was easier to get crack it'd be that.
I assume you're mostly talking about young heterosexual men. Mercifully I more or less fit this profile so I can comment.
I think part of the problem is you've made approaching women IRL kind of dangerous and unethical, at least in theory. There's always the apps, but the problems there have been documented--a lot of guys will just not find anyone, especially if they're short or ugly, and get embittered and enter the gooncave. And, from the feminist point of view, entering the gooncave is more ethical than trying to form a relationship and possibly making a woman uncomfortable. (For a while I figured 'well, at least I won't be an abuser'.) After all, if you read feminist writings the number of ways men can make a woman miserable in a relationship are legion.
As others have said, this doesn't affect everyone. Not everyone enters the gooncave; some men are socially skilled or lucky enough to approach and not wind up on Tiktok, others can navigate the apps successfully for whatever reason.
I can't imagine gooning taking over the world. Like another commenter said, post-nut clarity is just too strong and universal a male experience to make marathon masturbation sessions the norm. The problem is, whether you're watching porn for hours a day or just 10 minutes a day, you are still tricking your brain into thinking it has fulfilled the biological imperative, whereas you are really just removing yourself from the gene pool.
The gooners will goon themselves out of the gene pool eventually. Of course, that’s dependent on a heritable trait that would pre-dispose one to gooning. If gooning is a maladaptive cultural meme born out of internet culture it’s nearly impossible to eradicate
Believe me when I say that I’m disappointed in myself for being the first commenter on this topic. But I don’t get it. Is this like edging or, not to be crude, is there just repeated masturbation? How is there no post-nut clarity resulting in just … moving on? It used to be that the good thing about natural desires (like eating and sleeping and, yes, masturbating) is that there was a satiation point. And though it might return later, there is some period of time where you’re satiated. So they’re just choosing to keep going? No period of satiation? I don’t think one could even really physically desire that. Truly debased if so.
This is a great point. Yeah, I have no clue. It would clearly require a lot of will power to stick with this and not give into “post-nut clarity,” as you say, which runs up against the obvious fact that the Gooner is someone who has given up. If this was a radio show and not a Substack, this is when someone would need to call in to clarify.
Like you cannot do shit with Russia, China, North Korea, you won't be able to do anything with Gooner Federation - we are much more powerful than them
We, gooners, are legion. Your best chance is to join us until it's too late. I personally converted hundreds of youth to gooners, who are now doing same with their peers. We are organized, we are financed, and we are well motivated. Goon economy worth hudreds of billions (if not trillions). We have billionaires and politicians in our structure. Even one of FAANG corporations is advancing our ideology (I'll leave it to you to figure which one and in what manner). We are totally not your goth or lgbt toddlers
This is all part of our plan to drop population growth around this planet. Why? With time, you will figure it out. You cannot stop this - we are just defending this planet on a call of mother nature, just like pandemics do. They attack tissue, and we attack mind. Just so you know that population aging and decreasing birth rates are not because economics/cost of living - it's just a smoke into the eyes and very insignificant factor in the equation (which, however, plays in our favor). But there is no other way. To save this planet, you must goon harder.
This was a good essay.
The gooncave was inevitable ideologically in some form. Materialist ideologues thought we could place ourselves at the center of the cosmos, while pretending they were placing the sun there. If we are gods, individual and empowered by reason and scientific methodology so that we may shape the world as we will, then why not exist in the pod shooting ropes at E-girls who don't know we exist?
The answer of "because it's bad for your soul" is one the left (and it must be said, the mainstream right as well) cannot articulate or even admit. To them the soul either does not exist or if it does exist is simply a euphemism for personality. To the left then the innate loathing that gooning inspires can then only be mumbled in dreary and irrelevant 1930's Comintern language. Saying "gooners have social-fascist tendencies" while patting themselves on the back. The left can't get out of this without abandoning Marx but materialism is so cozy and the dialectic is so comfortably jargon filled.
You can condemn gooning as a utilitarian. It all comes down to how you quantify the positive affect -- the "utils" -- that utilitarians seek to optimize. Pleasure cannot be so easily divorced from the concept of a "good life", to which gooning is anathema. Any amplifier of human loneliness is inherently against the ideals of utilitarianism, because utilitarianism seeks to maximize pleasure and happiness, which in humans is derived mostly from our relationships with other humans. This was the key finding of Harvard's recently completed longitudinal study of human happiness -- friendships and relationships are paramount. Gooning poisons them and is thus a form of self-harm. I don't believe the gooners who claim to be happy with their lives, and neither does anybody else.
A non-dumb version of utilitarianism is probably possible, for the reasons you outline. It's hard for utilitarians to explain why some horrible things would still be wrong under the terms they've set - like why people in persistent vegetative states can't be rented out for sex - but I can let that slide for the present. Sorry for not responding to your thoughtful comment until now by the way. Somehow missed it!
Glad we agree! I think utilitarianism can be expanded into a system that condemns most harmful behaviors (including rented vegetables) and ultimately it does make sense to me as a way to navigate the world, but I agree it's not an idea that should be propagated widely when its core tenets can be so easily misunderstood. People confuse the hedonic with the eudaemonic and everything goes to shit.
I'm all about everything there but the humiliation memes were already tried. The failures ended up making counter memes. This all happened on 4chan 6 years ago. They didn't even need to be edited. The guys looked weird as everything and soulless but ppl found they had no self control. Everyone who I've found who wants to stop have self regulation skills and when they fail every humiliation gets absorbed into their personality. We don't really teach self regulation skills and if it was easier to get crack it'd be that.
This is all good to know. I’m open to revising my approach.
I assume you're mostly talking about young heterosexual men. Mercifully I more or less fit this profile so I can comment.
I think part of the problem is you've made approaching women IRL kind of dangerous and unethical, at least in theory. There's always the apps, but the problems there have been documented--a lot of guys will just not find anyone, especially if they're short or ugly, and get embittered and enter the gooncave. And, from the feminist point of view, entering the gooncave is more ethical than trying to form a relationship and possibly making a woman uncomfortable. (For a while I figured 'well, at least I won't be an abuser'.) After all, if you read feminist writings the number of ways men can make a woman miserable in a relationship are legion.
As others have said, this doesn't affect everyone. Not everyone enters the gooncave; some men are socially skilled or lucky enough to approach and not wind up on Tiktok, others can navigate the apps successfully for whatever reason.
I can't imagine gooning taking over the world. Like another commenter said, post-nut clarity is just too strong and universal a male experience to make marathon masturbation sessions the norm. The problem is, whether you're watching porn for hours a day or just 10 minutes a day, you are still tricking your brain into thinking it has fulfilled the biological imperative, whereas you are really just removing yourself from the gene pool.
The gooners will goon themselves out of the gene pool eventually. Of course, that’s dependent on a heritable trait that would pre-dispose one to gooning. If gooning is a maladaptive cultural meme born out of internet culture it’s nearly impossible to eradicate
Yeah, unless there's some equally powerful adaptive cultural meme to counter it. That's sort of what I was reaching for at the end of the article.
Believe me when I say that I’m disappointed in myself for being the first commenter on this topic. But I don’t get it. Is this like edging or, not to be crude, is there just repeated masturbation? How is there no post-nut clarity resulting in just … moving on? It used to be that the good thing about natural desires (like eating and sleeping and, yes, masturbating) is that there was a satiation point. And though it might return later, there is some period of time where you’re satiated. So they’re just choosing to keep going? No period of satiation? I don’t think one could even really physically desire that. Truly debased if so.
This is a great point. Yeah, I have no clue. It would clearly require a lot of will power to stick with this and not give into “post-nut clarity,” as you say, which runs up against the obvious fact that the Gooner is someone who has given up. If this was a radio show and not a Substack, this is when someone would need to call in to clarify.
Like you cannot do shit with Russia, China, North Korea, you won't be able to do anything with Gooner Federation - we are much more powerful than them
We, gooners, are legion. Your best chance is to join us until it's too late. I personally converted hundreds of youth to gooners, who are now doing same with their peers. We are organized, we are financed, and we are well motivated. Goon economy worth hudreds of billions (if not trillions). We have billionaires and politicians in our structure. Even one of FAANG corporations is advancing our ideology (I'll leave it to you to figure which one and in what manner). We are totally not your goth or lgbt toddlers
This is all part of our plan to drop population growth around this planet. Why? With time, you will figure it out. You cannot stop this - we are just defending this planet on a call of mother nature, just like pandemics do. They attack tissue, and we attack mind. Just so you know that population aging and decreasing birth rates are not because economics/cost of living - it's just a smoke into the eyes and very insignificant factor in the equation (which, however, plays in our favor). But there is no other way. To save this planet, you must goon harder.
I hope I enlightened you today abit
Regards, General of 3rd Gooner Assault Brigade.
This is very alarming!